Re: [Harp-L] Lone Wolf Harp break pedal and Sonny Jnr Super Cruncher comparison



LW Harp Break with power supply $163
RCF 310a (I use a QSC K10 which is overpriced) $549.99

I've used just the K10 with full bands - up to 10 pieces and have competed 
with guitar stacks and bass stacks.  If you are gigging, then odds are 
there are vocals.  Vocals require amplification through a PA and odds are 
there is an extra channel to line out to for FOH sound.  If there isn't, it 
is a small enough room where a powered speaker will probably work turned 
towards the audience.

I probably won't have one tonight of just the HB, but here is a clip of the 
HB with other pedals straight into my mixer. 
 http://mikefugazzi.com/files/Blues_Pedals.mp3  The HB by itself sound a 
bit rattier and has more highs. 

I am NOT a super strong blues player, but paired with a bullet mic, I think 
this is a very convincing sound.  I played over most the harp and did some 
tongue blocking, etc.  The song is 5min long and even I get bored listening 
after the first few turns, lol, but you'll get the point.  The entire rig 
was a HB into a Flat Cat into a MXR Carbon Copy into a BBE Sonic Maximizer 
into a custom bullet from Greg Heumann (99S556 element).

On Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:31:14 AM UTC-5, Richard Hunter wrote:
>
> <MARK BURNESS wrote: 
> <The "several hundred percent" price difference needs a bit more context 
> really. 
> < 
> <The Harp Break (or any other pedal/modeller) needs an amp (an output 
> section, rated in Watts,  feeding speakers, whether it be <SS/digital/tube) 
> to make any sound at all. An "amp" may be heard from the back line, or also 
> fed through a larger amp/PA..but it <is a self contained unit capable of 
> producing sound. 
> < 
> <Preferences vary, of course, but they are different things & need each 
> other, rather than being independent, mutually exclusive, 
> <entities/better/worse. 
> < 
> <If you sell an "amp" to buy a pedal/modeller, then you need to buy/have 
> access to another "amp" to make that device audible. 
>
> This is all correct, but it doesn't change the validity of the point: the 
> "several hundred percent" figure is thoroughly accurate even when the amp 
> is included.  Here's the breakdown: 
>
> Assuming you purchase everything new at typical discounted retail prices, 
> an amp modeler (like the Digitech RP355 or the Lone wolf Harp Break) runs 
> between $100-$200.  (You can get a used RP355 easily at Guitarcenter.com 
> for less than $100, which is certainly what I'd do, but let's stick to the 
> normal retail price for new for an accurate comparison.)  A Peavey KB2 
> keyboard amp will run another $250; similar prices apply to mid-range 
> powered speakers like the Mackie Thump (under $300) and Behringer B212D 
> (about $250)--both well-regarded units with enough power for a wide range 
> of gigs.  The total for the setup is therefore between $450-500.  (I 
> suppose we can add another $20 for a guitar cable to connect the pedal to 
> the amp, which you don't need when you're just running a mic to the amp.) 
>  So the total for an amp modeling setup that includes everything needed to 
> gig (excluding the microphone, which is presumably the same price no matter 
> what amp you're running behind it) is ! 
>  between $470-520 (again, assuming you buy everything new, which I 
> wouldn't).   
>
> I bought my SJ Super Sonny at a considerable discount when Sonny was 
> phasing out the Super Sonny in favor of the Cruncher and its newer 
> siblings.  Even so, the fully loaded cost of an amp modeling-based setup is 
> just about 1/3 of the cost of what I paid for the Super Sonny.  At normal 
> prices, it would be about 1/4 the price.   
>
> In short, there is indeed a "several hundred percent" (specifically, 
> 300%-400%)price difference between an amp modeler-based setup and a 
> traditional big harp amp.  If you ONLY include the amp modeler--which is 
> feasible if you've got access to a PA for gigs--then the difference is 
> closer to 1,000 percent (i.e. a factor of 10). 
>
> "Price" is only part of the "price for performance" calculation, and you 
> can't compare rigs without comparing their performance in terms of volume, 
> sound quality, etc., etc.  I won't claim that my RP setups sound "better" 
> than a Sonny Junior.  I only claim that they sound damn good, and Ian 
> Collard's side by side clips with an SJ and a Harp Break (not to mention 
> the clips of Steve Baker, Marcos Coll, and myself playing through RPs at my 
> site) obviously make the point.  And that's just at the basic amp-plus-mic 
> level.  If you want to get freaky with your sounds--say, with the kind of 
> FX that a John Popper or a Jason Ricci or myself use--then the price 
> difference between a multi-FX box like a Digitech RP and a traditional rig 
> augmented with a dozen traditional FX pedals on the floor is even steeper. 
>
> Plenty of the people reading this have a good-sounding traditional rig, 
> and I wouldn't advise anyone to sell a rig that makes sounds they like. 
>  (I've done that, and I have regretted it, every time.)  But when you want 
> to add a big pile of new sounds to your rig, the fastest and least 
> expensive route to that outcome by far is an amp modeler/multi-FX device. 
>
> I have no doubt that most harp players will eventually use amp modeling 
> gear, as most guitarists already do. It is by far the least expensive route 
> to a great amped sound. In every way that matters--price, sound quality and 
> flexibility, ease of use, portability--the stuff just works. And in some of 
> these ways, it is obviously far superior to traditional gear. I wouldn't 
> put my Sonny Junior on an airplane unless I was ready to see it come off 
> the plane in pieces--and that's even before we consider the expense of 
> shipping an amp in an anvil case.  But I can carry an amp modeler on board 
> in my hand luggage, and when I get to the gig, I know exactly what I'm 
> going to sound like: good. 
>
> Final comment: I presume we know that there's a difference between a Lone 
> Wolf harp Break and a Digitech RP. The Lone Wolf (and other single purpose 
> amp modelers like the Tech 21 Blonde, the Boss Fender Bassman FBM-1 pedal, 
> and so on) emulates the sound of an amp; the RP emulates the sounds of a 
> number of amps, plus pitch FX, modulation FX, delay, reverb, etc. In other 
> words, the LW is an amp modeler; the RP is an amp modeler plus multi-FX. 
>  The key advantage of the former is simplicity in operation (because it 
> does one thing); the key advantage of the latter is the variety of sound 
> and FX (because it does many things). (I do what I can with my patch sets 
> to make the RPs easy to operate.)  We're all lucky to have these kinds of 
> choices.  People talk a lot about vintage gear, but I can tell you for sure 
> that the stuff we get now is better in EVERY, repeat EVERY way--better 
> sounding, more durable, MUCH less expensive--than the gear we struggled 
> with in the 60s and 70s.   
>
> Thanks and regards, Richard Hunter 
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>
> author, "Jazz Harp" 
> latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com 
> Myspace http://myspace.com/richardhunterharp 
> Vids at http://www.youtube.com/user/lightninrick 
> more mp3s at http://taxi.com/rhunter 
> Twitter: lightninrick 
>
>


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