[Harp-L] Re: Harp-L Digest, Vol 117, Issue 45

[Michael Rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>]

Playing a C harp in the key of C is straight harp.  That is also called
first position.

Playing a C harp in the key of G is cross harp.  That is also called second
position.

Playing a C harp in the key of A, be it major or anything else, is called
4th position.  There is no accepted nickname.


On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 2:23 AM, Hellerman, Steven L. <
shellerman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Okay, by "4th position is how you play straight harp in a minor key" I am
> referring totally to technique (and melody); I understand that once one
> leaves first postion it becomes cross harp. My musical literacy is quite
> limited, but of course I can tell that my technique in 4th on a minor is
> what I use in 1st on a major (and it's a more melodic sound, as opposed to
> bluesy). And I understand that 4th represents the relative major chord to
> the minor chord on a guitar (C is the relative major to A minor, G to E
> minor, etc.).
>
> Never tried playing 4th in a major, which brings me back to the question:
> Is that (playing, say, a C harp when the tune is in A major, not minor) a
> straight or cross harp technique? Or something else?
>
> SLH
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 17:35:03 -0500
> From: Michael Rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] RE: What would Charlie Musselwhite do?
> To: "Hellerman, Steven L." <shellerman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CACQv+tyjbZOFKjejijDnUM1N4geZACu6SRROQNTfGZSyvjHK8A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Steven,
> I disagree with you.  4th position is not playing straight harp in a minor
> key.  First, as Winslow points out, if you were playing straight harp on a
> C harp, the band would be in C minor.  Although it is possible to play in C
> minor on a C harp, it is difficult and it is not what is happening in
> fourth position at all.
>
> As Winslow explained, 4th position on a C harp is the key of A.  A very
> common scale for A minor is A B C D E F G A.  It is not the only way to
> play in A minor, but it is common.  Since every one of these notes is a
> white note on the keyboard, it is easy to play on a C harp, because all of
> the notes built into a C harp are white notes on the keyboard.  The band is
> in A minor, pick up a C harp and sound great in fourth position.
>
> I believe this is what you meant and were articulating incorrectly.
>
> However, where I want to disagree with you is that 4th is much more complex
> than simply playing in minor.  You can play any scale and any type of music
> in fourth.  What makes it fourth is that it is the harp key's  name plus 3
> notes clockwise on the circle of fifths.  The harp key is first position,
> or one.  One plus 3 is 4.  Fourth position. As long as the band is in the
> key of A and you have a C harp, you are in 4th position.  It can be major,
> minor, blues, anything!
> Michael Rubin
> Michaelrubinharmonica.com
>
>
> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Hellerman, Steven L. <
> shellerman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ross-
> >
> > 4th position is simply playing straight harp in a minor key. If you can
> > play 1st position you can play 4th position, as long as the tune is in a
> > minor key.
> >
> > As for "3rd position as the go-to position for minor tunes": Not
> > necessarily. You can play both. Indeed, you can switch back and forth on
> > the same tune. Why not?  One of my "Eureeka!" moments regarding the harp
> > was when I realilzed I could play 2nd, 3rd AND 4th position on the same
> > minor key tune. This was shortly after realizing I could play 1st, 2nd
> and
> > 3rd position on the same major key tune. Again: Why not?
> >
> > SLH
> >
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 21:43:48 -0700
> > From: Ross Macdonald <pdxharpdog@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [Harp-L] What would Charlie Musselwhite do?
> > To: List harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Message-ID: <75D104F8-4F5B-47C5-B627-B43B2277B2C9@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > Hi, I am meeting with our record producer for our new album next week for
> > pre-production.  This new album will have a Tom Waits-like feel to it
> with
> > few instruments and will have harp on most tunes.  Something like his
> > Orphans: Brawlers, Bawlers and Bastards record.  I know that Charlie
> played
> > most of the harp on the record (John Hammond played some too).
> >
> > One of the tracks on our record is a slow but swingy 50's kind of
> > private-eye thing in E minor.  I am Ok doing this in 3rd position on a
> low
> > D harp,  but not at all in 4th position on a G harp.  If I am being
> honest,
> > once you get past 1st, 2nd and 3rd position I am basically a bit lost. Do
> > the pros generally default to 3rd position as the go-to position for
> minor
> > tunes?  Is it worth learning 4th position for more than just changing it
> up
> > on a minor tune?  Is there a fourth position tutorial out there on
> youtube
> > i could study?
> >
> > What would Charlie default to on a E minor tune?  Im thinking whatever
> > position the harp would be played in,  it would need some tremolo and
> > reverb to get the mood I think it needs.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Ross Macdonald
> >
>
>
>