Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass chop? (David Naiditch chromatic, David Payne 48 chord and mandolin)

[Cara Cooke <cyberharp@xxxxxxxxx>]

I am glad that you got that clip.  It is also a good example of a variety
of things.  Thanks for sharing it.

Cara


On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 10:40 PM, David Payne
<dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> This is an even better example, I think. This is one of my favorite
> musical memories. It was the Bluegrass Jam at SPAH 2010. One of the nights.
> Lonesome Midnight Waltz. I was playing 48 chord, David Naditch on
> chromatic. Then, at the end of the clip, I was playing your sweet old
> Gibson mandolin Cara and David joined in with his chromatic. It was one of
> my absolute favorite musical memories, right up there with some of my
> memories of my grandfather's music.
>
> Here is the clip:
>
> http://elkriverharmonicas.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/audio/lonesomemoonlightspah2010.25115603.mp3
>
>
> David Payne
> www.elkriverharmonicas.com
> www.hetrickharmonica.com
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Cara Cooke <cyberharp@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: Harp L Harp L <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass chop?
>
> David is correct.  There are many regional differences in bluegrass across
> the country, but the basics remain.  The clip he linked shows a good
> representation of providing off-beat back up on a chord.
>
> Cara
>
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:15 PM, David Payne
> <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> > Bluegrass in Appalachia and the Ohio Valley is a bit different than it is
> > in Texas and it's really different in California, but this is a universal
> > thing Cara's talking about. My grandfather was of the same general school
> > of thought as Cara about many things, he had specific roles for each
> > instrument and specific roles for specific situations, although I don't
> > recall him ever saying anything about who plays on the 2 and 4 and who
> does
> > not. He was a HOT mandolin player, I mean HOT, but he didn't always play
> > hot. He played very reserved licks on songs with vocals, his saying was
> > "save the hot licks for the instrumentals."
> > I grew up with his bluegrass and my father's, so I'm very familiar with
> > all of that and accept most of them, but at the same time, I added some
> of
> > my own ideas to what the Payne family was doing musically - I'm the
> fourth
> > generation of musician in my family - I developed a lot of my own ideas
> > about what the harmonica could do.
> > When you play a chord with a mandolin, the sound isn't a harmonica and
> > mandolin. It is one sound, that's a bit richer. It works and I've done it
> > for years.
> >  I put the harmonica on the 2 and 4 beat with the mandolin as a general
> > rule.
> > You can hear them together here. This is a pretty good example, because
> at
> > first it's just me and Roy Clark Jr., then the mandolin comes in later,
> so
> > you can see how the sound changes.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErqlTrMj3Lc
> >
> >
> > That dude from the Barcelona Bluegrass band also chops, but I haven't
> seen
> > him play with a mandolin.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnSbMLfG_VE&feature=related
> >
> >
> > David Payne
> > www.elkriverharmonicas.com
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Cara Cooke <cyberharp@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: Brian Stear <brianstear@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass chop?
> >
> > Metronome practice is never a bad idea, but live practice is just as
> > important.
> >
> > Back up comes in a lot of different ways.  It takes time to learn to feel
> > what is best at what moment.  Sometimes, not playing at all, is the best
> > choice.  Watch for those moments and seize them.
> >
> > For playing "chops", I usually provide this guidance:
> > In bluegrass, in particular, the "chop" on the off-beat is owned by the
> > mandolin.
> > Do not overshadow the instrument that owns a part or you may create
> > confusion.
> >
> > If there is no mandolin, then the banjo will try to fill in with its
> > pinched notes for chops.  The guitar will be heard, too, but, hopefully,
> > the downstroke on the guitar will not linger too long or there will not
> be
> > as crisp a sound for the "chop" as is normarlly desired.  If this is the
> > situation, continue to keep your "chops" sharp, balanced with the others,
> > and inside the realm created by the combination of the banjo and guitar.
> > Remember that the mandolin does this and try to pretend you are simply a
> > quieter mandolin.
> >
> > For back up fills, I generally turn to the fiddle.  It can, and
> > occasionally will, "chop", but fiddlers more commonly provide harmonic
> > tones and occasional runs/fills underneath it all.  They generally
> provide
> > great guidance to common runs and how they can be applied, and often are
> a
> > great source of how to tastefully apply them, as well.
> >
> > Remember, in a bluegrass band, only two instruments can really carry a
> long
> > tone: the fiddle and the harmonica.  As a consequence, the fiddle is a
> > nature guide to how the harmonica can blend and perform in balance with
> the
> > other bluegrass players.
> >
> > Cara
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Brian Stear <brianstear@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Been getting into bluegrass and Celtic more....but......I have the
> > darnest
> > > time playing a simple chop like the mandolin for more than a minute or
> > two
> > > ( now I know why the mandolin player moved away from me at the last jam
> > > session I sat in on ).
> > >   Is this as simple as turning on the metronome, and practicing? Or
> > should
> > > I just lay out? WWCCD? ( What would Cara Cooke do ).....
> > > What do you guys do when at a bluegrass jam session?
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> >
>