Fw: Re: Subject: Re: [Harp-L] looking for a new home...

[Gene Pool <subdomaintain@xxxxxxxxx>]

--- On Thu, 6/3/10, Gene Pool <subdomaintain@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


From: Gene Pool <subdomaintain@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Harp-L] looking for a new home...
To: EGS1217@xxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 5:27 AM







Hi Elisabeth,
 
I appreciate your comments and I hear what you are saying.  However, my disagreement with the slidemeister owner is a fundamental one.  
 
I spend 99.9% of my harmonica time on the chromatic.  The topic, Getting a diatonic sound on a chromatic, is squarely a chromatic topic.  So long as I'm playing a chromatic harmonica, it's chromatic discussion.  When it was moved to diatonic discussion, I protested, which is not allowed, and that is why I was banned. 

The topic I was actually banned for was, A chromatic is a chromatic is a chromatic...which was promptly removed.
 
I was asking for it, I get that - but I'd rather speak my peace than tiptoe around discussions about one of my greatest passions.
 
The fact that people like Rob Paparozzi, Winslow, and others have been banned from a chromatic harmonica site is revealing.  On many occasions I got the sense that I didn't fit in there, yet I did learn a lot which kept me around.  
 
I feel like the prevailing attitudes are, guys that buy tons of harmonicas can't really play, guys that use altered tunings are just looking for a short cut, and guys who half valve are just diatonic players in disguise.
 
Of course it's his site and he can run it any way he wants to, but lording over the boards like a dictator is bound to turn a lot of people off in the long run.
 
Grant (of the chromaddict gene pool)
 
 

--- On Thu, 6/3/10, EGS1217@xxxxxxx <EGS1217@xxxxxxx> wrote:


From: EGS1217@xxxxxxx <EGS1217@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Subject: Re: [Harp-L] looking for a new home...
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Cc: gnarlyheman@xxxxxxxxx, subdomaintain@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 2:41 AM



I haven't had much time to post on Slidemeister in a few months so went to the site this morning to check out what was going on with this topic ....to find that Gnarly (Gary) was allowed to continue the thread and to 'discuss' the issue with AJ even after Grant (Genepool) said he was banned.
 
I don't understand Gary's bringing up acrimony since I saw no evidence of that at all.
 
I thought AJ explained his points of view as they applied to his initial sign-up Rules & Regulations (quoted below). IF others have issues with this idea - why not suggest (on Slidemeister) that perhaps yet another area be set up for just such cross-over discussions as this? Why turn it into a fight against the listowner?  He listened when people wanted a diatonic 'room', why wouldn't he listen if enough people wanted another area? 
 
SmoJoe has also explained very satisfactorily here how and why Slidemeister came about in the first place....as a sanctuary for chromatic players who could barely get any in-depth discussion of chromatics going without feeling drowned out by talk of Blues and amps and other gear. The players back then who were eager to have a site of their own were simply not interested in such other aspects of harmonica talk....even if they played diatonics themselves as most chrom players do or did. They were interested in opening up and fixing chromatics - talking about valves, etc...something which bores most diatonic players.
 
I've looked back in the archives from those years (when I first signed on with both) and in all honesty there was very, very little chromatic discussion here on harp-l. Fortunately more has opened up over the years despite the general 'sense' of this list as still 'primarily' a blues/diatonic site - which is perfectly fine.
 
Occasionally I want to point people to Slidemeister when a specific chromatic question is asked..since I know the particular topic has usually already been hashed out in extreme depth there. One thing I very much appreciate about SM is that the posts don't disappear into the archives to be sought out later. They're alive and well and immediately accessible - and can be continued in real time. Someone else will respond to a post/question - and so a particular thread which might have had even a year's hiatus will pick back up as if it never stopped. That's terrific and worth its weight in gold.
 
Like harp-l, Slidemeister has evolved over the years.  The difference is it's no longer a list where originally I felt distinctly unwelcome and uncomfortable but a website where I'm perfectly free to discuss any and all aspects of my chromatic instruments and music. What many of us who belong there like so much about it is the complete lack of censorship - something people are now getting the wrong impression about. We police ourselves as far as language and 'friendliness'. There are no emails to be concerned about..one simply posts responses to others' posts. When someone steps over the bounds, he/she is usually gently but effectively 'handled'  by other posters. In addition, there's a 'report to moderator' button which I just noticed and have never used.
 
Many other harmonica friendly sites have sprung up in recent years as well. 
We get to choose now where we feel the most comfortable. Each of these lists has their own peculiarities, rules and regulations. Here on harp-l, meta discussion is frowned upon. On Slidemeister the owner of the list does not wish to have and completely abhors diatonic mixed with chromatic discussion. That is his right as Owner of the list.
 
He was finally persuaded to have an area devoted to diatonics for those who played both or for some who might be interested in chromatics but aren't quite 'there' yet - and it's worked well... easy enough to post in that area. People do. I've taken the following from his posted instructions about the rules and regs (available even before one signs up):
 
"Please be sure to take the time to post your stuff under the proper board. We went through an awful lot of trouble to set up boards to handle specific subject matter to insure that no one ever has to waste time sorting through information they don't want, to find information they do want. 

Right off the bat, on this new site, we got this down to where it works fine and SlideMeister is now the most efficient harmonica forum on the web.  If your post concerns Diatonic content, that's great; Just DON'T try to sneak it into anything but the Diatonic board (under the BanterMeister board) By the same token, don't even think about put Chromatic stuff in the Diatonic section, unless you're making a comparison of the harmonicas, okay? Repeat: Comparative discussion is both good and encouraged, as long as you make sure you do not put it in the Chromatic boards. That stuff may all be discussed in the BanterMeister / Diatonic board.

Keeping things efficient"
 
So what's wrong with that? Here's another example of how the site has changed and his flexibility. He's a religious man, quite comfortable with his personal lay ministry. I'M not personally comfortable belonging to a list if it was skewed to one religious point of view...nor skewed to one political point of view. Religion was discussed fairly often and openly, so I seriously thought of leaving. Political talk began to rear its head on the site.  So to keep it fair -especially since Slidemeister has members joining from all over the World - AJ decided that ALL religious and political talk would be banned. IF one wishes to discuss religion separately - there is a separate area set up for that just as there is for diatonics. Perfectly fine with everyone who belongs to the list. Those of us not interested, don't have to visit.
 
Naturally, since many harmonicists (including the listowner) play both chromatics and diatonics, occasionally some talk of diatonics will come up  in ordinary conversation, and it's NOT been treated as a 'banning' offense by AJ. I'm witness to this.  I don't know when or where Rob ran into his problems - but I'd guess it was further back in time than the newer changes made and the huge explosion of members added to that site.
 
The Grant of 'genepool' obviously ran afoul of AJ in some way..either didn't comprehend when told the rules were up to the listowner and there was no compromise on that particular issue...or perhaps it was simply a matter of his having to change the 'heading' of the topic?  
 
 It isn't the end of the world - AJ's a reasonable enough guy - as long as you understand the rules of HIS website.
 
Right now the site is down for fixing - with some allowance for posting in a limited fashion. However to join up one has to agree to abide by the rules as is true for any list or website. There's nothing remotely unusual or unreasonable there.
 
 Since I find it a very relaxed and comfortable site on which to post - specifically due to the banter back and forth between the regulars who've been posting for years, I'd hate to have misunderstandings chase potential members away. As much of an outspoken rebel as I've been, I've never once run afoul of AJ and his vaunted 'obstinacy'...as others have termed it. He's been nothing but gracious to me for as long as I've been a part of Slidemeister and treated me very well indeed.
 
In my opinion....the two 'main' harmonica sites are Harp-l and Slidemeister. And they've both done very well for a reason. One caters to one segment of the harmonica playing world and one to the other. There is and can be cross-over....but one has to know just where and when not to step over the line to keep both sites comfortable for everyone to enjoy.  Fwiw, a great many people I know feel comfortable belonging to both.
 
Elizabeth