Re: [Harp-L] II V I

[Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>]

Using the various modes of melodic minor over a minor ii-V-I, with the alt version of the V chord and the minor-major 7th on the I chord are among the most common harmonic jazz practice currently, but they're not the only possibilities and not the only usages.

On the ii chord in a minor ii-V-i (the half-diminished or minor7-flat5), the obvious default scale would be the Locrian mode. For instance, if you have a Bm7b5 chord, that chord occurs in the C major scale, so you'd use the mode of C major that starts on B. Using D melodic minor instead gives you one advantage, Instead of B followed by C (a minor 2nd, which can be disagreeable) it's followed instead by a major 2nd (C#) which can sound a bit smoother.

On the V chord, you'll find a wide variety of flavors in minor keys, depending on the period and substyle of jazz, and often soloist and accompanist are not in perfect accord. For instance, on older music you might find a simple V7 chord, which you could play over using a  minor scale that contains the thrid of the chord. Over E7 (key of A minor), you ,ight play an A harmonic minor or an A melodic minor. Or you might find an E augmented 7 (E-G#-B#-D), which you could play over again using the A melodic or harmonic minor, or even an E whole tone scale.

Modern V chord tend to be based either on diminished harmony or melodic minor harmony (the alt chord). The two sound similar, but don't agree on all points.

I don't think Levine is wrong in any way to focus on melodic minor harmony in minor cadences; it's a common practice. But it's not the only practice.


Winslow Yerxa

Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, michael rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: michael rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] II V I
To: "Winslow Yerxa" <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 10:30 AM

Winslow,
Perhaps I am taking Mark Levine too literally.  He says Dm7b5 GAlt7
Cminor Maj7 is a minor II V I, You point out Autumn Leaves as IIm7b5
V7 Im as a minor II V I.  Before I read Levine, I always thought that
any combination of II V I chord types was a II V I, but Levine made me
rethink it.

Would you still use the same jazz melodic minor modes for the slightly
different chord choices?  To be specific, Levine says use the Ab jazz
melodic minor scale over the G Alt7.  Would you still use that scale
during G7?  Then, he says use the C jazz melodic minor over the C
minor Maj7 chord.  Would you still use that chord over Cm?
Thanks,
Michael Rubin
Michaelrubinharmonica.com

On 1/9/10, Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> A tune that comtains both major and minor ii-V-I's is Autumn Leaves.
>
> let's put the tune in E minor (Toots likes to play it in G minor).
>
> The chords of the A part go
>
> Am7 D7 GMaj7 CMaj7 F#m7b5 B7 Em
>
> Notice how the chord roots go around the circle of fifths
>
> Now the first three chords are ii-V-I in G Major. (Am7-D7-G)
>
> But then they continue through the IV chord (CMaj7), the VII chord (F#m7b5). So far this is all compatible with the key of G major - all the chords are built on the notes of the G major scale.
>
> But the next chord, B7, doesn't belong in the key of  G major. It has a D#, which is not part ofo the scale.
>
> B7 is the V chord in the key of E, and indeed the next chord is E minor. F#m7b5 is the II chord, B7 is the V and E minor is the I chord, so we have a ii-V-i in E minor.
>
> The entire progression viewed from E minor could be described as iv-VII-III-VI-ii-V-i.
>
> Another place you'll find ii-V I's is at the end of the jazz-style 12-bar blues. Instead of going V-IV-I it usually goes II-V-I.
>
> II-V-Is are built into the common "salty dog" progression, where you might go
>
> C - A7-Dm-G7, which is I-VI7-ii-V. You can ehar this in "Heart and Soul" and "Santa Catalina" for two examples.
>
> The progression of George Gershwin's "I Got Rhythm" is the basis for the 32-bar song form comomnly called rhythm changes, which underly a lot of jazz tunes. This incorporates the salty dog progression in the A part:
>
> C-A7-Dm7-G7  C-A7-Dm7-G7
>
> C - C/E - F - F#dim7 - C/G G7 C
>
> This forms part of a AABA form, where you play the A part twice, then play a B part, then play the A aprt a ast time.  The B part would go:;
>
> E7 E7 A7 A7 D7 D7 G7 G7
>
> Which is like a cascading series of V-I candences, but with each new I being the V to the next chord until you arrive back at the V chord of the original key.
>
> Sonny Rollins' Saint Thomas also uses a salty-dog progression:
>
> C C A7A7 Dm7 G7 C (repeat)
>
> E7 Am Dm7 G7 C C7 F Fm Dm7 G7 C
>
> Note the use of both II-Vs and II-V-like progressions.
>
> These are just the examples that come to mind before my morning coffee.
>
> Winslow
>
>
> Winslow Yerxa
>
> Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
>
>
> On 1/9/10, Mick Zaklan <mzaklan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >   So, somebody please give me a straight answer.  Name a tune.  Because I'm
> > telling you, I've asked around about this and I'm tired of hearing "oh, that
> > progression is all over the place".
> >
> > Mick Zaklan
>
>
>
>
>
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