RE: [Harp-L] I overdrewed a Seydel Shanty tremolo, much to my disbelief

[Avery Man <elfrex@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:56:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Payne <dmatthew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Harp-L] 	I overdrewed  a Seydel Shanty tremolo, much to my
> 	disbelief
> To: Harp L Harp L <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <277638.84971.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> I had always thought that an overblow/overdraw was impossible on a discreet tremolo comb, with the separate chambers for each individual reed, like you see on tremolos. Well, I just overdrew a Seydel Shanty tremolo. Never say never, I suppose. Whenever I get some time, I foresee an ERIFAHS study on tremolos.
> 
> 
> Dave
> _________________________
> www.elkriverharmonicas.com 
> 

I ran into a street person at Astor Place at the start of my quest for 10 hole chromaticity  5 years ago who could play a tremolo chromatically. Was playing a straight tuned C harp in C minor. totally messed with my head. He tried to show me his technique which was some bizarre tilting and pointing the ends of the harp skyward and insisted that I had "graduated from baby harp" and needed to move on to tremolo so I could play the saxophone lines in my head. I think he was using a cheap chinese harp and a Hohner Weekender too. 

I didn't know about harp physics then but as think about it now, if you have a lower blow reed and higher draw reed, then you overblow the draw reed up a half step. So taking the covers off my C harp (i love turbolids!) and holding down the 4 draw D (which would be another blow C on a tremolo) and covering the 5 blow E which would be a duplicate of the draw reed in the chamber (F in this case) and then adjusting my pucker to overblow into both holes 4 and 5 with a C blow and F draw reed only yields the expected F# whereas the unstressed blow and draw produce the C and F, no regular blow bend is possible and a regular draw bend can get the C to go all the way up to an E (which is I think is more accurate in terms of physics and math than getting the F to go down to a C# which is more accurate in terms of how if feels physically and mentally in terms of playing). 

for overdraws I guess you would need a higher blow reed and lower draw reed to force the blow reed up a half step. So if I cover the G of blow 3 and the D of draw 4, I get two chambers with a B draw and C blow (duplicating in two holes the reed combo of hole 7 but an octave lower) and get the expected C# on the overdraw, no blow bend and a 1/4 tone regular draw bend.

Near as i can tell if you lips cover 4 holes say the C and the D, you overblow the two D reeds up to a D# and if you slide over and take in 4 holes with 2 B reeds and two C reeds you overdraw the C up to a C# (which you can also get if you slide right and regular draw bend the C up to a C# with the D draw as the  auxilary reed). That's how i think the street person did it. Maybe our paths will cross again now that I know more. I don't have a tremolo to play with tho atm.

totally blows my mind that regular draw bends make the blow reed go up and regular blow bends make the draw reed go up, whereas overblowing makes the draw reed go up and overdrawing makes the blow reed go up.

this is more confusing that my faulty math in trying to figure out that there are 100 cents in a semitone. fortunately I don't have to be smart to read a tuning needle and LCD. Db harp is done, btw. Michael Jackson's Beat It in the original concert key of Eb using dorian mode on my new toy, here i come. (I had been using a Bb in F).

I think you're on to something. keep us posted. i had forgotten about that street person till now. Apolgies if my logic is faulty or confusing but the experiment I described did work near as I can tell. coffee time.

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