Re: Subject: [Harp-L] side vent test discussion

[David Payne <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I forgot to mention, on each side the Prewar Seydel Bandmaster has TWO side vents, one large megaphone vent below the coverplate screw and a small one above it. I only covered the one of the larger vents on one side. The other vent remained uncovered the entire time. What difference would that make? I don't know. But the difference y'all heard was from covering and uncovering the larger vent, the smaller one was open the entire time.
I've been getting some additional responses from people, many of whom are not on Harp L or slidemeister, folks who were passing by on the Web site, checked out the "booklearnin'" and whatnot on my Harp School page and clicked on the link. We're up to 27 responses now and nobody has guessed it wrong yet. 
I could see the volume vary on the graph, but I had to listen to it over several days to actually hear the volume change. It is very slight, but there is something else going on that is much more obvious. 
Now, when you do a hand vibrato, you get the wa wa sound, it's simply a change in volume. But when you change the shape of the mouth, etc. to make sounds like "wee ooo" or toil, toil, are you not changing the tone when you that? I am inclined to think so. When I listen to the side-vent-manipulated sample, I hear "zwee aaa, zwee aaa" that is not a change in volume. What's left to change? tone perhaps? 
I picked the Prewar Seydel Bandmaster for the first test because it is the was created with a pure side vent concept. Everything else I've seen has been a Marine Band or a Marine Band clone and the Marine Band's side vent was accidental, Jacob Hohner's original Marine Band concept was for vibrating coverplates and was only attached by the mouse ears, it left a side vent, but the idea was to simply get the coverplate away from the reedplate. The Bandmaster, however, was created with a megaphone side vent to drive sound out of the sides and it is a much more effective side vent because it was actually designed to be a side vent. 
Seydel really needs to make this harmonica again, it's a brilliant design. All they would have to do is make the coverplates, the original prewar Bandmaster reeds and reedplate survives today as the Seydel Solist. The reed profile they use today on the other harps, Solist Pro, etc. is identical to a second profile they also had in the 30s. In fact, I can't tell the difference between one of those reeds from the 1930s and the reeds they use today. 
The Prewar Bandmaster wasn't discontinued because its popularity faded, but because the East German Communist Party took over Seydel after World War II. I gotta tell ya, the communists really urinated in the harmonica world's corn flakes with discontinuing that gem.
More tests to come: 
1) A Marine Band test exactly like the one I did for the Bandmaster. 
2) A test between the Marine band and Bandmaster, machine blown.
3) A Bandmaster test, machine blown. 

Dave
_____________________
Dave Payne Sr. 
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com


----- Original Message ----
From: "EGS1217@xxxxxxx" <EGS1217@xxxxxxx>
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:12:34 PM
Subject: Subject: [Harp-L] side vent test discussion

Dave asked:  "Did anybody hear a tonal difference? If so, what was it like? There is a difference in volume, I couldn't really hear much of a volume shift, but I could see a slight change graphed, so it's there." 

 
yes.  clear as a bell ;)  I'm one of the 19 who heard it instantly. Actually, it sounded as though the sound was almost being 'bent', but it was being done by blocking and unblocking the vent.  Very strong difference (at least to my untrained ears)...when your finger came off (and yes I could easily hear each time you blocked and unblocked the vents)...the sound 'popped' louder, and was fuller; then more muffled when the vents were being covered.  
 
Elizabeth
 
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Payne <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] side vent test discussion
To: Harp L Harp L <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <34018..89286.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I just called that guy whose answer I had slight doubt what he meant and got clarification. That's 19 of 19 who correctly identified the sample with side-vent manipulation. There were also about seven others who responded after someone posted their findings on slidemeister, all of them correctly named the manipulated sample as well.

I'm going to do this same test with a Marine Band. I expect those results won't be as one-sided. The prewar Seydel Bandmaster has side vents on steroids compared to the MB. 

Did anybody hear a tonal difference? If so, what was it like? There is a difference in volume, I couldn't really hear much of a volume shift, but I could see a slight change graphed, so it's there. 
Dave
_______________________
Dave Payne Sr.
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com











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