[Harp-L] Subject: Re: Plagiarism (plagarism)

[EGS1217@xxxxxxx]

Thank you for the private explanation of the difference between  copying a 
riff vis-a-vis a solo, Glenn, since my original post to which you  graciously 
responded just made it onto the actual list this afternoon, and I  wouldn't want 
anyone to think I was belabouring the point long after the fact,  since I 
sent it in around 6p.m on Friday. 
 Your response was much appreciated.
 
You've since also explained your point of view onlist, as have several  other 
players.  So I'm writing this around 7:15 p.m."ish"  on Saturday, asking more 
questions :)
 
....I guess I'm one of those who don't truly know the difference  between a 
"phrase" and a "full solo".  So....can someone break it down  for a novice like 
me?  And would a solo need to consist of so  many bars?  Is it always length? 
Or does the recognizability factor of  a particular phrase sometimes count 
instead?  
 
>From your perspective, I can quite see how what you witnessed could be a  
burr under your saddle...you have written books covering certain artists'  
definitive styles, which I believe makes you particularly sensitive to  their being 
"ripped off", just as much as it would be if someone were to quote  passages 
from a Hemingway book in a public reading of his/her own novel....or  
incorporate passages from a Frost poem within his/her own poetry again  during a public 
reading without explaining that the words weren't their  own....it makes 
perfect sense if one correlates the notes to words,  and thinks of it in those 
terms...(and a perfect definition of  plagiarism).
 
 But I had been looking at it earlier from a different  perspective until 
reading all the   various points of view (including  yours), pretty much as: 
 
.. just how many Blues phrases are there without there having at some  point 
to be some sort of repetition...especially to achieve the "sound" every  Blues 
player who pays homage to those who came before is seeking.  
 
Therein lies the quandary, methinks.  
 
Most of the responding posts have valid viewpoints, frankly (imho, of  
course). One person chose to be very rude, alas, and probably does not have  a clue 
that you do indeed have a life (and therefore don't need to "get  one") within 
the harmonica world.
 
I suppose my thoughts (jumbled as they are) ramble in the direction  of:  can 
anyone be absolutely positive that the "well known player"  you haven't yet 
outed not be merely playing these pieces as something he's been  so used to 
doing for enough years they've merely become rote (as some here  have alluded to) 
and simply blended into and become part of his repertoire,  so he isn't 
thinking at all that they once were another player's  distinctive solo......  
 
or....devil's advocate as I prefer to be:  If he IS that far up  the ladder 
and at the top of his game ...could it perhaps be that the player in  question 
might hope or expect his audience to be sophisticated and  knowledgeable 
enough to recognize those solos precisely AS his homage to his  "heroes"...and be 
performing them with a wink to the few in the audience  who would be aware 
(admittedly very few)?  
 
For that matter and my own curiosity, does any real pro ever  stop his/her 
playing to tell the audience that the solo just played   -- or about to be, was 
that of one of  the "greats"?  Would 99% of the audience have a  clue who was 
being discussed when it comes to the harmonica world, or  are they there 
simply to be entertained and not educated?
 
Some sort of casual reference at the end of a piece would certainly be  
nice...even if completely incomprehensible to me as an audience member (half the  
time I can't decipher the names when an artist pays kudos to his  fellow 
musicians, let alone anything more esoteric)...but if any artist I was  paying to 
see spent an inordinate amount of time doing this, I can  imagine becoming just 
a tad annoyed.
 
I'm a big fan of Jazz guitarist Peter White.  During his concerts he  plays a 
mixture of his own music as well as covers of the R&B  music he (and I) grew 
up with in the 60's...makes almost a game  of seeing where in the piece the 
audience will recognize the number  and begin to sing along.  These are beloved 
songs...(I'm listening to  one right now: "Walk on By" (Warwick/Bacharach)) 
many of which he recorded  on CD's, so I'm assuming he's taken care of any 
copyright....but  what is the difference, really, since sometimes he only plays 
snippets  of familiar songs...as "teasers".  
 
Are we more judgmental towards harmonica players than we would be towards  
guitarists, pianists..or any other instrumentalists?  I really do see  your side 
of it and understand the frustration, but can also see the  disparate 
viewpoint..but then again...perhaps precisely because "gone  before" harmonica blues 
players never made any real money or weren't "as  respected" in the music 
industry as their fellow musicians, is why this bothers  you to the extent it 
does, and for that reason alone I'd be in your  corner...   
 
Then there's this school of thought:  Wasn't the entire world of  chromatic 
harmonica playing in the United States influenced by "Peg O' My Heart"  as 
played by the Harmonicats...and so many beginning chromatic players strove  
mightily to play it just as they did?  I imagine their entire aim (and for  their 
audiences as well)... was to get as close to the real thing as  possible...."If 
you can't have the original, a great copy will make do"?
 
I'm actually not looking to learn any harmonica solo the way it's  played by 
anyone else...since I'm partial to Saxophone players and vocalists for  my 
inspiration on chromatic...but I'd sure give my eyeteeth to  sound remotely like 
Barbra Streisand, Eva Cassidy or Cassandra Wilson when  I sing...and if I 
could, I'd do every single one of their songs note for note if  I had a mere 
fraction of their talent.   ;)
 
Regards,
 
Elizabeth




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