Re: [Harp-L] Re: fender bassman ltd again




----- Original Message ----- From: "scott" <checker758@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: [Harp-L] Re: fender bassman ltd again



--- In harp-l-archives@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Ray Beltran <raybeltran@xxxx> wrote:

What guys are attempting to reproduce of LW's sound (when they say they want
that LW sound) are examples they've heard from RECORDED material. In a
(mostly) controlled studio environment. With studio effects. And a good
mix.


Now I know effects are a personal matter. But when someone writes "reverb is
a must"...I really question that.


Exactly. Any reverb and/or delay effects you hear on LW records were *studio only* effects. They were used on the records only, and how they were applied was determined by the producer and engineer, not by LW. When asked how the reverb effect was applied on the records, he didn't even know - he just said that the engineer was "doing it with his hand" (i.e., turning something up and down in the control room.)

Trying to recreate that studio sound in a live situation would not only be next to impossible, but also a bad idea for the reasons Ray points out below - reverb and delay will only wash out the sound in a live situation, making your playing sound indistinct and distant. Or as Ray says, "mushy", as opposed clear and defined.

LW didn't use these sorts of effects in live situations because they were unnecessary - the room already provided plenty of reverb and delay. In fact, when LW was asked about what type of room he liked to play in, he said, "One with a low ceiling", i.e., one that DIDN'T create a lot of reverb. He then went on to complain specifically about large rooms that created a lot of reverberated sounds - he said he didn't like hearing the sound bouncing back at him after he'd played it, because by the time it bounced back, he'd already moved on and played something else.

I suppose all of this is just another way of saying you can't buy "the LW sound". If you could, don't you think there would have been a lot more people who sounded like him back in the day, when everyone had easy access to all of the same equipment he used? It seems likely to me that there were also harp players back then who thought the secret was in the equipment, and they WERE able to see exactly what he used on a gig, so they went out and got the same thing. But I don't hear anyone who was able to replicate his sound then, any more than I do now.

Scott

Hi,
I have to agree with this. In most recording sessions, even back then, the ideal amp to record with is a LOW powered amp, anything from 8 watts and generally NO LOUDER than 25 watts because bleed thru in a studio is a huge problem, and in a studio, it's quite different than playing live, because the studio is a controlled environment, and from personal experience, it is NOT uncommon for stuff that works great live, sucks big time in the studio and vice versa. Many harp players tend to go too nutty over the tube subs as they listen to how the amp sounds when they're standing less than 10 feet in front, and as Ray says CORRECTLY, the same amp in the back of the room sounds entirely different and room acoustics is often the biggest wild card in the world. I've played on many a stage where while standing on the bandstand, everything sounds absolutely awful, but then when moving about 20 feet away, it was an entirely different story.


Small amps as a general rule uses the simplest of circuitry and harp nearly ALWAYS benefits from it and the more powerful the amp, the gradually more complex the circuit tends to become and it becomes a different thing entirely. Even guitarist Albert King often recorded for Stax using nothing but an 8 watt Fender Champ. A lot of the older recordings often used boom mikes placed strategically in the room and often sounds warm and full because unlike having a mike right on each instrument as is the case today, they used more of the room sound and the mikes were more like people's ears, so it was basically recording sound more like the way people in the audience hears it.

Rooms with very high ceilings often can make things either really muddy sounding or make everything sound a helluva lot louder than it actually is in terms of wattage. Still, great gear won't ever cover up poor acoustic chops and tone no matter how hard you try and how much you spend on it. Someone who has the acoustic tone and chops happening will make ANYTHING that most people would throw in the trash sound heavenly and someone without the acoustic tone and chops together will make the most prized equipment in the world sound like it belongs in the garbage.

Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
MP3's: http://music.mp3lizard.com/barbequebob/






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