RE: [Harp-L] San Francisco/Amateurs and pros

["Bill Hines" <billhines4@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Great follow-up posts by Bret, Richard and BBQ Bob. All true things, as
well. I frequent the local jam here, and the guy running it (Mike
Easton, who is on this list) does an unreal job but deals with all these
issues (and the other crap like volume, etc). I guess the problem is
more often the guy showing up who has no business being there. I think
anyone running a jam would be perfectly within their right to ask
someone they are not familiar with to blow a little in the hall or
outside so that he/she could properly place them. I'm sure that would
offend some though.

Me, I'm still in the woodshed so I go to listen and learn, don't even
bring a harp. I watch what the pros like Mike are doing, what the
amateurs who are still learning but ahead of me are doing, and also what
the "hacks" (both pro and amateur) are doing wrong, and make mental
notes (yeah, a good one is don't go up there after a gut full of liquid
courage!) I learn quite a bit that way, and bring it on back to the
woodshed. Eventually, someday, I'll have to get up there with some other
musicians and make some mistakes. Hopefully they'll be understanding. I
would only do that at the very early stage of a jam, when there are few
people there, not at prime-time when the house is full. One of you guys
made a legit point that people go there to these things in increasing
numbers to hear the pros kickin' it, and that is true (I must admit it
is awesome when that happens). I put up with the flaws in the early
hours of a jam, and sit back and enjoy the latter hours when the music
is so good. In fact, I have to admit also that some of what I see/hear
there is quite comical and entertainmenting in that sense, when I see
the drama unfolding on stage as members step on each other or just screw
up badly, the looks that are shooting around between the musicians while
they are trying to play. I could just picture Richard up there in SF at
the amateur session, trying to orchestrate that group, haha. That, and
seeing someone go up there who thinks he/she are the next Little Walter
and they are playing so badly, are priceless comedy. :^)

-----Original Message-----
From: harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Bret Littlehales
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:46 PM
To: Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] San Francisco/Amateurs and pros



Bill Hines wrote:

"I think many of these jams have become showcases where the "pros" from
various bands show up and jam with each other, rather than a place where
"hacks" can learn chops and how to perform in a group setting. It's
discouraging for the ones trying to learn, because they get the dirty
looks and other negative issues (like the "pros" don't want to play with
any "hacks" in the jam lineup). Let's keep the genre alive and support,
encourage. None of you guys were born with this knowledge, share it with
those who want to learn, be careful not to put them down in subtle ways.
Think about who took the time to help you, in a long ago and far away
galaxy..."

Bill, my feeling is that if "the pros" come to the jam, then it's
instructional for the weekend guys to hear and learn from them. I try
and put pros and amateurs together, but it can be tough, especially if
the amateur is an unknown to me. And yes, while it's true that the pros
do not usually want to sit in with the amateurs, a bigger problem is
amateurs not wanting to play with other amateurs, because everybody
wants to play with pros. 

I bend over backwards to make sure that everyone who signs up at my jam
gets to play, but sometimes, if a pro shows up, I'll have to limit
someone else's time so I can give the pro a decent showcase. I have a
non-jamming audience to think about, too, and sometimes they need a shot
of really good music after listening to the same three chords over and
over played by guys (and women) who don't leave their basements much. 

Here in DC we have some great musicians, and personally, if I have to
cut someone's time so that Charlie Sayles or Doug Jay or Pierre
Beauregard get more playing time, then I'm gonna do it. In the long run,
if the amateurs are serious, they'll thank me. 

Having said this, there are jams here in the DC area that cater almost
exclusively to the amateur blues musician. I know of at least three.
(Write me offline for more info if you're interested.)

By the way, there's a huge gap between "amateurs" and "hacks". I know
several pros who are complete hacks and many more amateurs who play like
pros. 

Bret



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