[Harp-L] notes, piano tuning and such

["Jonathan R. Ross" <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

While I hate to disagree with a fellow Jonathan, Jonathan Metts writes:

"You see, it's 
impossible for every key on a piano to be in tune simultaneously."

No, it is quite possible.  It depends on how you define "in tune".
Thus, if you want you can tune a piano to 12TET, 1/6 comma meantone or
whatever you want.  Not every note will be perfectly harmonious with
every other note, but they will all be "in tune" according to the system
used.  

"could perfectly tune one side or the other, at least a few keys 
at a time, but it sounds horrible when you start playing on the other
side."

If by this you are describing so-called "stretch" tuning where the
highest and lowest notes of the piano are not in perfect octaves, then
this is somewhat correct.  Except, whenever tuning the final judge is
the ear.  In stringed instruments stretch tuning is used because of a
flaw in the way the human ear perceives the sound of vibrating strings
at their extreme ranges when compared to the middle registers.  Thus, if
the octaves were actually tuned pure they would not seem that way to the
listener.  Again, this is a known entity and thus "in tune" for a piano
(or other stringed instrument of similar range) must take this into
consideration.  Theoretical perfection is nice, but practical is much
more important.

"Harp content: Can someone tell me if diatonic harps are the same way,
or are they short enough that you can successfully have the whole
instrument in 
tune at once?"

The problem does not exist in free-reed instruments.  It is a factor of
the way in which strings vibrate and the overtones they create.  Other
instruments (free-reeds, flue pipes, etc...) don't behave in this manner
and thus do not have this problem.  Thus you could tune a harmonica in
pure octaves across the entire range exhibited from the bass-harp to the
piccolo-harp with pure octaves and have no problem.  Indeed, this is
essentially the range covered by large Piano and Chromatic-Button
accordions as well as many reed-organs and harmoniums.  Similarly, in
terms of pitch the organ goes both much lower and much higher than the
piano and there is no need for stretch tuning with either the flue pipes
or the beating reeds (or the rare free reeds used in organs).

Separately, Ken in  Geogia writes:

"CX-12 C- Hohner- won in recent jazz
contest in Fla was not good-8 draw slide in-B#.   There is no B# in
music
it is same as C."

I am going to do something that I rarely do, shout.  "B# IS NOT THE SAME
AS C".  I know, it may be over-reacting, but they are not the same
thing.  In many instruments they may be, such as pianos, mallet
instruments and such.  But, in many others they are not--especially many
harmonicas.  They are enharmonic notes (the same as E#/F, Cb/B, Fb/E and
so forth) only when using an instrument limited to 12 tones per octave.
In the violin family, for instance, they are not the same note at all.
Even on some keyboard instruments this is not the case--divided black
keys may not be common, but they aren't unheard of at all.  

What does this have to do with harmonica?  Well, the discussion was
about using different harmonicas in different contexts, particularly
"classical" and jazz (aside, I'll use the term "formal" over "classical"
hereon out--"classical" is a period such as "baroque" or "romantic",
IMO).  Well, if you're trying to play a Bach viol sonata on the
chromatic you would be well advised to consider whether he writes a B#
or a C, because the violist wouldn't play the same note there (at least
they shouldn't--Bach certainly wouldn't have).  Moreover, in terms of
Western music theory there are many reasons why B# and C are not the
same thing--key modulation being one of them.

While I don't know of anyone who has their chromatic harmonica tuned so
that E# and F or B# and C are in fact different notes, there is no
particular reason why this couldn't be the case.  I'd have to think
about it more, but there may be advantages to this in terms of chord
voicing, actually.  The solo-layout has the possibility of "divided
black notes" style usage inherent in the system, however it may be that
because only certain chords are available this is not something which
can really be taken advantage of.

But, to sum it up, while some instruments (about half of the Western
instruments, I'd guess) use enharmonic notes, this doesn't mean that in
theory the two are the same, nor does it mean that for all instruments
the two are the same.  Again, to be harmonica specific, if you're
diatonics are tuned to something other than 12TET, then the C on a Db
harp will probably be a different note than C on an F harp because of
where it fits within the tuning structure of that particular harmonica.



 oo    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()()   & Snuffy, too:)
`--'